I had the pleasure of working alongside Matt Henney towards the end of the season, covering two important Workington Reds games for Radio Cumbria.
Last week I was reminded of his other sporting background when I saw him at a rugby league final at Distington, so I thought it a good time to catch up.
Matt, you come from a rugby league background, how did you get into football and did you play much rugby?
All of my family are from a rugby league background, my dad played for Workington Town, Salford and Fulham to name a few and my uncle Alan was player coach at Whitehaven.
My two other uncles Russell Henney and John Banks played for Workington Town while me grandad Albert Banks played for Egremont Rangers for many years.
I did try rugby for a short period around the age of nine and there was one stand-out memory for me was during a game for Salford, getting the ball and running away from the opposition and not towards them.
I put the ball down in my own try zone (liken that to an own goal in football) not a great start but I was quick. When I was told I had gone the wrong way I ran the ball right up to the other end and scored there instead!
I continued to play up until the age of 11 for Tank Stainton at Egremont Rangers but playing on the wing and not being involved so much made me restless and bored so it was then at that age, I turned to football.
Who had the biggest influence on your development as a young footballer and who had most impact on your career since you started in senior football?
It’s a tough one this. It’s usually your dad but mine wasn’t around a lot and my mam had to work two jobs to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table.
I found myself playing for Egremont juniors with my coach Alan Hall so he had a real influence on me when I was in my younger years and he ended up being my coach at 15 when I made my debut for Windscale playing against adults in the Barrow and Furness league.
It was a few years later at 17/18 I was in the first team at Windscale playing in the Wearside league. My managers were Vinny Jackson and ex Reds goal keeper Ronnie Hughes.
Playing at this level at a young age really helped me adapt to the physical side of the game which stood me in great stead when up the leagues playing for firstly Workington Reds, Gretna and Barrow.
Tell me how you came to join Workington and how your career had been going up to that point – at Windscale?
I was starting to find my feet really quickly at Windscale picking up a double award of Player of the Year and Players’ player. We had such a strong team then winning two cups in the North East and the county cup so to get those individual awards was a amazing feeling for a young lad!
The first I had heard of Workington Reds interest was when Peter Hampton and Bill Wilson came to watch me play in the County Cup final where I scored our first goal in a 2-1 win over Carlisle City.
The Reds asked me to play in a friendly during the following pre-season against Bury. I can remember feeling I didn’t play so well for my first outing and I decided I would stay at Windscale for another season.
Letter after letter kept arriving at my house for me to sign for Workington who were relentless in their pursuit for me to sign. Then came a huge moment in my life involving my mother who is a tough woman!
She had been collecting all the letters that Workington had been sending me because I had been putting them in the bin. I guess I had a bit of fear of not being good enough and playing outside of my comfort zone.
My mam then came with all the letters and she threw them at me and just said: “If you want to waste your talent and just play with your mates for the rest of your life then you go ahead and do that but just so you know , I’m disappointed.“
This was the push I needed. She knew what she was doing and I then signed for Reds in November.
What was the highlight of your time with the Reds and who were the team-mates you remember most?
I had so many real football highs at Workington as my first season with the Reds saw us win the league with just under 4,000 fans packed into Borough Park. This was only six months after playing at the Falcon ground in front of a handful of people.
To say I was a little nervous is an understatement. To add to that it was a winner takes all against Mossley who could have also won the league that hot Bank Holiday Monday.
The presidents cup final against Barrow was a titanic tussle over two legs. The first leg at Holker Street I can remember us arriving late due to the bus getting trapped on the narrow back roads on route to the game!
We went on to lose that first leg 3-2 but we gave it a real go against a team who were a league higher than us.
In the second leg we went 2-0 up when I scored our first goal, a header from a Will Varty free kick, and was the taken down for a penalty which Craig Johnstone dispatched like he always did. Unfortunately we lost 6-5 on aggregate overall but what a classic encounter.
The play-off final win against Farsley Celtic was a special night which elevated us into the Conference North.
The game itself was a real arm wrestle and not the best game but a real high for myself and the club. It was game won on penalties and under huge pressure Dave Hewson hit a cracker that sent us up.
I have to say there was no chance of me taking a penalty that night as I missed so many in practice against Adam Colin that I had no confidence in ever taking one. Big Adam said he could tell every time which way I was going !
Playing with Paul Stewart was an amazing feeling, he was so clever in the way he played, always finding space and had a brilliant first touch.
But I do wish he had never told me about the Preston North End scouts he had invited down to watch me because I had a rotten game as you always tend to do when you try to hard.
In that title-winning team we had so many good players who were fantastic week-in-week-out. Myself and Mark Jones were the two centre midfielders. He would hold and let me get forward to score my goals where I could arrive late to get the end of some brilliant crosses from two ahead of their time wing backs in Marc Green and Alan Gray.
I used to love playing in front of Will Varty, who just oozed calmness, was never flustered, and easily one of the best centre backs I’ve played with in my time.
Will should have had another 3/4 seasons easily at Reds. It’s crazy how life was made hard for him as he couldn’t train as often due to being on a nightshift some weeks. You find a way to get a player like him in your team no matter what the adjustments have to be.
Craig Johnston was very much like myself in that he loved the Reds as much as I did. He would play anywhere and score goals and a great guy to be around.
I always felt we linked up really well with Craig having real intelligence in finding the runs I made. That brings me onto Graham Goulding and Ian Arnold, who both had this game intelligence which would bring the best out of you as a winger, I always enjoyed performing with these lads.
Then there was Kyle May. What a centre half. I actually played a big part in getting him to the Reds from Gretna where I first came across him.
Manager Tommy Cassidy was a little unconvinced after a friendly, but I assured Tommy this was down to it being a friendly and he would love him when the real stuff started, Tommy’s words were – “Well it’s on you then if this doesn’t work out!“
Adam Collin was a class above any keeper I played in front of. His distribution had to be immaculate as it was me he had to find so I could win the flick on and start the attacks. Every attribute a good keeper needs big Adam had, so no surprise he went on to have a great career.
The switch to Barrow happened after some good years. How did that come about?
Barrow made an approach after the President’s Cup final when Lee Turnbull was in charge. I was loving my time at Workington and signed a new contract to stay.
The following season Barrow came in again but I gave them the same response as I was playing well and loving my football. But it was into my sixth season under Tommy Cassidy where things started to change slightly.
At the end of every season you would sit down with Tommy to discuss how you feel it went and I agreed it was one of my quieter seasons and Tommy indicated that for the first time I would not be one of his main players. I was 31 going on 32 and I had a feeling that I didn’t have the support of Tommy and I needed a new fresh challenge.
Barrow had always been in the background waiting for me to sign and they were never going to go away it seemed and didn’t matter which manager it was either.
So this time I decided to have a discussion with Phil Wilson at Barrow who was keen to sign me alongside all the new recruits at the club where he told me what his plans were.
The last subject on the agenda was the financial package where I just asked Phil to give me the same wage as I was on at Workington because the move was not financial it was about me refreshing myself at a new club.
Barrow actually trained at Blackburn but in my contract it was agreed I just had to attend one session per week due to the distance.
I can always remember the first training session where I wanted the bleep test to prove my fitness to my fellow players and the new manager. They had seen me play for years but first impressions count I guess and it was nice to hear Phil Wilson and the coaching staff pass comment to the younger players using me as an example of how to look after yourself
I know you feel strongly about that “badge kissing episode” – tell it in your own words here Matt
I remember the build-up to the game against Reds like it was yesterday – the feeling of going up against the football club that had given me so many highs and the chance to play at a higher level of football. and I was also coming up against the lot of my friends and ex team mates.
It was very early into my Barrow career and I actually thought what will I do if I score? It was a no brainer to show respect to Workington and their supporters that I would hold my hand up and put my head down but that all changed before the game as I was booed and the chants of Judas rang loud and clear.
This angered me slightly as well as a man who had photocopied £20 notes and he threw them all at me saying here’s your God Henney. So if I’m honest the plan of showing respect to the away fans disappeared from my thoughts.
Unbelievably five minutes into the game and I had a chance to score. I celebrated the goal as a two fingers up to the away fans who had given me some stick so why not give it back.
Now the bit that left a sour taste. I celebrated the goal at the opposite end to the ground where the Reds fans were congregated. I found out stories have circulated since that I kissed the Barrow badge but there are a couple of anomalies with this I think.
The first one was that it was only my fourth game for Barrow and my love for the club had not even started to grow at that point and if I did kiss the badge because a person reckons he spotted it, he would have had to have been in with the Barrow fans behind the goal as it would’ve been impossible to see from the opposite end of the ground where the Reds supporters were.
I obviously did eventually grow to love Barrow as the fans were brilliant with me but something like that takes time and I always liken it to when you meet a woman in your life.
You don’t tell them you love them a few weeks into the relationship. This takes time to develop which is exactly what happened with me and my new club Barrow so to say I would be stupid and disrespectful to Workington Reds by doing such a thing hurt my feelings.
Injuries played a part in your later career. How bad were they and how hard was it to call time on your career?
The injuries became more prominent during my season in the Conference Premier. Unfortunately for me the league at that time had so many teams from down south the time spent in cars and buses really took its toll on my lower back and hamstrings to the extent where I was receiving physio treatment after the bus journey in a hotel and then before games.
The way i played I relied a lot on strength, power and pace so, as I got to the age of 34 I could feel my main attributes sadly weakening, so when I left Barrow there was only going to be one place to finish my career which was back home at Workington.
When I sat down with Darren Edmondson to discuss terms he offered me a two-year contract which I refused to sign due to me thinking that my body could possibly would break down at anytime and I did not want to be in a position where Workington will be left to pay up my contract if I could not play football anymore.
When I realised after around four to five months back at Workington that I couldn’t perform to the levels that I wanted to I decided to call it a day and retire.
I did not want to be one of those players who got in the way of youngsters coming through or a drain on the budget.
Having been involved in football from the age of 12 to than having no football in my life was really difficult to take. You really miss playing in front of the supporters and I miss the banter of the dressing room and you obviously missed the most important part which is the game.
When you play for these clubs you really feel you have an important existence so once I stopped playing it was a no brainer to then get back into the game as fast as possible and that’s when management came calling.
You’ve had one or two managerial appointments. How did they go and have any desire to get back into management?
Management started out for me back at the place where I started my career with Windscale. I went into the club where, make no mistake about it they were in pretty much a dire position.
They were sitting in and around 17th in the league of about 20 teams and I looked at it as a real challenge to try and improve the fortunes and for me to learn about football management at the same time.
We managed to end the season in a respectable eighth position. The following season we bettered that slightly by finishing 6th. I always remember fondly a brilliant day for the football club when Dave Baylis and Sheridan brought the Barrow first team to play my Windscale side in a pre-season friendly at the Falcon ground.
My next managerial appointment was Cleator Moor Celtic. The first season with Celtic my high expectations didn’t really go to plan and we ended the season in sixth position but in a pre-season game we played Penrith FC away and the lads put on a masterclass and we destroyed them 6-1.
I think this was when the interest from Billy Williams at Penrith first came to light and midway through that season I was asked to attend an interview from Penrith around September time.
I spoke to Billy and told him I would wait until the end of that season as I had started with Celtic. The season was going well enough and we made it into the Shipowners Cup final, but around February Bill made contact to say if I didn’t take the job he would have to advertise the post as he felt Penrith were going down!
The dilemma was I would miss my chance to manage at a higher level so I left Celtic who went onto brilliantly winning the Cup final under Dene White who took over.
Penrith came calling whilst sitting in the relegation zone of Northern League One. The chairman had been managing for a while and was hoping to do so to the end of my period at Celtic but things were looking really bleak.
So in February I took my first training session with the boys and then we played top of the league Darlington away where we lost 1-0 after giving away a late penalty. It was heart ache but loads of positives as the players executed the game plan and nearly came away with a point.
I had been to watch Penrith a few times and knew all about the lads and I could see what I wanted to do with them. What shocked me was I noticed a sub with some head phones on during the game, now that I didn’t like.
That season we finished 13th going unbeaten for a stretch of a dozen games. The players were superb for me and I had some good ones already on the books at Penrith.
The following season we went deep into the FA Cup, only losing to a last minute winner at Bradford Park Avenue who were a top Conference North team.
Prior to that we beat a real good Scarborough team on penalties which was a night that had never been seen at Penrith before with a bumper crowd inside Frenchfield.
My remit at Penrith was simple, keep us in the Division. The budget was very minimal but the players gave everything and I was proud to be associated with those lads. It was them that kept me at the club for so long because a lot politics we’re going on that never seemed to go away and became really tiring.
So after four seasons of safely finishing mid table, and with players leaving for Reds and even Carlisle Utd the job became impossible.
The final straw was a idea of mine to save money for the club that was in trouble. I obviously took a pay cut which I would do at any club but a big cost was the buses we went to games on.
We had our own van which I said I would drive to help cost. Problem was I got caught speeding due to us being late for a mid-week game, I was doing 33 in a 30 zone and I received three points and a £90 fine.
When I approached the club about them paying this I was bluntly told no. I felt a real breakdown between myself and chairman from this point on as I was already being frustrated from the way things were being run.
We lost to South Shields who were top of the league, and the boys dug in. After the game I was told I was being let go due to results. Was I sad to leave the club? No. Was I sad to leave my players? Yes.
Why would I not like to go back to Gretna? As a player I had loved it there, getting into the Scottish league and playing Hampden was the stuff of dreams.
So to go back and manage my old team was a no brainer. Again like Penrith they were struggling, again like Penrith my first game was the toughest we could ask for, Buckie thistle away at the top of Scotland in the Scottish cup.
So we had a couple of sessions together and come up with a game plan to try and get something. We scored early through Jamie Hope but conceded a equaliser in the second half, but the boys battled on and we got a replay out of the game, so it was a great start.
Unfortunately we didn’t perform in the replay and lost but lots to work on, and we ended the season in 8th position which I was happy with and we went close in the league losing the semi final to Stirling University.
I left Gretna after more frustrations where I grew to think that managing was such a difficult task at the clubs I had been at. So much felt like it was with two hands tied behind my back so I called it a day and walked away from the game.
My ambition was to one day manage Workington Reds, and whilst at Penrith I was offered this chance alongside my good friend Gavin Skelton, but the timing was all wrong because my wife was heavily pregnant and we already had a two-year-old in Jake.
I spoke to a Gav and he went into it alone. He was always going to do a brilliant job, because he’s a brilliant football person who I have always got on with, he’s my type of lad.
I do sometimes wonder ‘what if’ because I was so close to my dream but on this occasion, and for the first time, family came first.
Football had always been high up on my priorities but the circumstances were not right, talk about bad timing!
You clearly enjoy watching your son play for Windscale, and help the team with coaching. What’s your hopes for him and the team?
My Windscale under-13s have had a great season, winning the treble and finishing the season without losing a game . I love coaching the kids and sharing my experiences in football but also in life to help them grow into fine young men.
The only expectations I have for my own son is that he enjoys his football and we will see where that takes him, Jake is also playing rugby union for Egremont and rugby league for Wath Brow Hornets.
My daughter Sophia plays football for Whitehaven Lionesses and she’s also doing very well, the thing I look forward to the most is watching my daughter play her football and my son play his football and rugby.
If you could have one day again from your career, to savour and replay, which one would it be?
Sorry Walshie, I can’t just have one day, it will have to be three!
Back in 1999 winning the League title with Workington Reds was just a scenario you don’t see often in football where both teams could win the league on the final day of the season. We had to win 14 consecutive games to do so and to win it in front of 4,000 fans at Borough Park will never be forgotten.
Six months earlier I was playing my football at Windscale in front of a handful of people at the Falcon Ground and on this day I was stood in the middle of the fans after a pitch invasion in an explosion of celebration for the club and the town.
The Conference North play-off final in 2008 this was played out in front of 5,000 spectators live on TV against Stalybridge Celtic. It was nice scoring the winning goal in this one to help Barrow gain promotion to the Conference Premier.
This was another game I will never forget, as there was yet another pitch invasion at the final whistle and more notable was me leaving the field in just my under pants as all my kit and strip had been taken off me from the Barrow fans for them to keep as a memento from the night.
The third one is playing Middlesbrough in the third round of the FA Cup.
All three games have the same kind of feeling, The magnitude of importance of each one is noticeable. And the Middlesbrough game was unique as it basically felt like being a Premier League footballer for the weekend.
We stayed in the same hotel as Stoke City the night before the game where I had a nice chat with Tony Pulis who was their manager at the time.
Standing in the tunnel alongside international Premier League footballers is a moment I will never forget and then walking out in front of 28,000 supporters was just mind blowing.
Gareth Southgate was the Middlesbrough manager at the time and his team were struggling near the bottom of the Premier League so he was in no position to rest any of his star players as a defeat would’ve seen him get the sack.
So to lose just 2-1 to a strong Middlesbrough side was a pretty decent showing from Barrow.
The ref that day was Mike Dean. I remember having some friendly banter with him where he said to me – “This is too close to call” because he had Borough as a banker on his coupon!
